The Millennium World

Lynda      19 Oct 2010, 11:55

Oct. 19, 2010
Yes, I love reading about the millennium. I feel so alone often in my beliefs. I have followed Pastor Murray for 10 years now. Left church I was raised in. could not take it any more. So I say what I can when I think it is appropiate. I have know since I was 10 years old that something was missing in God's word. Iam one of thoes thinkers. spend a lot of time reading ahnd studying history. The millennium is going to be awesome. I know for sure I was with God before. Somedays I can almost see it. I am happy I found your site , although I am not an internet person per sa. I will be able to talk to all thoes prophets and people in history. We will remember each other, Right? Well, I have to go feed my chickens. I live in very rual Maine. God Bless'

Doug Buckley      20 Oct 2010, 14:01

Hi Lynda, good to hear from you. There's no point in staying in a church if you're not being fed the meat of God's Word, unless you feel you should be there. I tell people to be like an animal looking for food, taking the good and simply leaving the bad, because it is our responsibility to stay strong and grow in the Word. The problem is that there are just so many churches that tell people what they want to hear, or substitute man's traditions for the Word. There are alot of waterless wells out there, and some just want to control and manipulate people (I actually had a negative experience with a Shepherd's Chapel spin off group, so go figure).

I do think that during the millennium people will be able to recognize or remember eachother in some form.

Lynda      21 Oct 2010, 14:04

Lynda from rual Maine Oct. 21, 2010 1:30pm

Hi Doug,
Thank you for your answers. I tried to join a Shepherd's Chapel spin off group and they would not even let me in. So I do not try to join their groups any longer. I just listen to our favorite Pastor. I often time wonder why I have eyes to see,and hears to hear and others who are better people than me do not. I know more is expected of me and I fall so short. But I refuse to give up now. Is it me?, or do people seem to have changed a lot. Everyone seems to not trust anyone anymore. We can't go on like this. I long so much for love, peace and goodwill for people. I was a social worker before I changed jobs a few years ago. I worked with teenagers. It was reallyt hurting me until I found out though the word of God that many of the kids I worked with would have a chance for the truth in the millenium. I even told a few teenagers who did not believe anything, and I could not blame them for that. They really have no way in this presnt age. It broke my heart. I was working with a 14 year old girl, who was having a pretty rough road in life that she was not going to burn in hell forever. She had been told that in church, and because she had made many mistakes in life at such a young age, she gave up. She thought it was no use trying. I do not think Pastors who preach hell fire like that know the damage they can do to young minds. Anyway I had to be careful on my job. I do not preach to anyone. But I will answer a question. I have a question. How do you think it will go down concerning the unforgivable sin. You know what it is. How will thousands of people have ten days to let the holy spirit speak through them? I only know a few scriptures that talk about it. I can't imagine how it will all come to past. But I KNOW it will.

Thank you Dough, God Bless

Doug Buckley      23 Oct 2010, 17:20

Lynda, "that because of the false brethren privily brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage" (Galatians 2.4 KJV bible). False brethren are always working to take over groups and churches. Also, there does seem to be some serious moral degradation going on, even though things were never great. Families are all messed up, and I can't blame people for not trusting others. You probably see this alot with your work. I don't want to jump to any conclusions, but I do fear America's best days are behind her.

Alot of people are going to be helped in the millennium. All we can do is plant seeds in the appropriate times and places, being wise as serpents and gentle as doves (Matthew 10.16), and leave it in God's hands. You can certainly say alot more when you're not on their dime. IMO reaching sinners is a numbers game (a very serious game).

Also see my work in the bible questions section about the unpardonable sin.

Don Murray      25 Oct 2010, 09:05

After much study of scripture I have come to believe that when Christ returns, after the tribulation, all life will be destroyed and the earth laid bare by the brightness of his coming. (2 Pet 2:10) He does not touch the earth but gathers his saints into the clouds and takes them to heaven. (1 Th 4:16-17,Mat 24:29-31) Even John saw the saints in heaven where the thrones are. (Rev 20:4) At the end of the 1000 years Christ will return with his saints (Rev 21:2)

2 Pet 2:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

1 Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1 Th 4:17 NKJV Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Mat 24:29-31 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' (30)‘At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. (31) And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband

Doug Buckley      25 Oct 2010, 15:51

Hi Don, you've presented a unique theory that fits well with the scriptures you have quoted. Essentially you are saying that the saints will reign in heaven during the millennium period.

I can tell that you really study the bible and don't just lap up what people tell you. I can't say that you've convinced me though. There are bible passages that describe a period of time when Christ and God's elect will reign over the world, including nonbelievers and the unrighteous people. This indicates that the saints will reign over the unbelievers during the millennium,

"And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off...nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more" (Malachi 4.3 KJV bible).

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee" (Revelation 3.9 KJV bible).

There's alot more to this, and see the next sections on the millennium, especially the last two, for a more complete explanation of what I am saying here.

Don Murray      25 Oct 2010, 17:39

Doug,
Thanks for reading and trying to understand. We should all question what we hear just as Arnold says. Who knows what our studies will lead us to.

I believe Malachi 4:3 speaks of the end on the 1000 years when the New Heaven and New Earth is established. Your reference to Mal 4:3 should read as follows: "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts."

I think you meant Mic 4:3, but lets go to verse 1 & 2 of Mic 4, "But in the last days it shall come to pass, [that] the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it." Mic 4:2 "And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem."

That 'mountain of the house of the LORD' in the top of the mountains' is heaven descended to earth. (Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.)

However, Mal 4:3 is a favorite of mine and I believe when sin is finally destroyed and those doomed to hell will be burned up and thus the reference to ashes under our feet. Now that is a whole new study and I do not want to get distracted from the 1000 years right now.

You did write: "There are bible passages that describe a period of time when Christ and God's elect will reign over the world, including nonbelievers and the unrighteous people. This indicates that the saints will reign over the unbelievers during the millennium,"

Yes I believe there is a time when the unrighteous will be resurrected (the 2nd resurrection) and will be on the earth. So will be the saints as they return with the LORD. Yes, we the saints will reign over the world. The unbelievers will join with Satan for one last battle and be destroyed at this time. No reference is made to reigning for 1000 years.

Doug Buckley      27 Oct 2010, 02:11

I think we see eye to eye on alot of things including the world ending at Christ's return. You are basically moving what I'd identify as millennium passages into Judgment Day, so you're expanding the period of Judgment Day. So in your theory the millennium reign happens in heaven. This is a bit like post-millennialism. I assume you would identify a passage like Matthew 25.1-30 as being part of Judgment Day as opposed to the millennium?

One thing I noticed is that Revelation 20.3 says that Satan will be imprisoned during the millennium, so that he cannot deceive the nations anymore. Then it says in Revelation 20.8, that he is released and goes out to deceive the nations. So we seem to have nations during the millennium, that are protected from the devil's deception. Also, what about the last chapters of Ezekiel, which alot of people feel relates to the millennium? I have a chapter about Ezekiel's millennium in my online book.

Don Murray      28 Oct 2010, 17:43

The saints cannot be on the earth when scripture (1 The 4:16-17) tells us they already joined Jesus in the air (heaven) at his second coming. They do return to the earth with Jesus at the end of the 1000 years (Rev 21:2). We can’t be in two places during the same time period (1000 years) Remember the wicked are all destroyed at his coming.

Mathew 25 as you mentioned does sound like Judgement Day or the day the Lord the punishes the wicked they deserve by sending them to hell (or annihilated).
You reference Rev 20:3 “And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.” I believe the place Satan and his demons are bound for a 1000 years is the earth. He won’t torment anyone because there won’t be anyone there to torment. Everyone dies when Christ returns. I also believe at the second coming everyone will have made a decision who they will serve, the Lord or Satan and this will be accomplished during the tribulation.
Let’s look closely at Rev 20:8 starting at verse 7: And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: (Heaven now on the earth) and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Verse 7 tells us when the 1000 years are expired (after the millennium not during) Satan is released to deceive the nations (also 20:3) “…till the thousands years should be fulfilled…” No nations on the earth to deceive until the 2nd resurrection of the wicked (already judged to hell) then Satan will have one more try but will fail.

I feel chapter 48 (last) of Ezekiel describes the placement and distribution of lands and the tribes of Israel. However, I will read your online book about Ezekiel's millennium.

I have enjoyed our discussion.

Doug Buckley      28 Oct 2010, 20:10

Thanks Don, good to hear from you

Marilyn      28 Sep 2011, 20:46

wow, probably shouldn't have opened this question and read........

I believe this teaching to be distorted and here's why. The only scriptures speaking about what you call the "millenium" are in Revelation 20. The actual Greek is "plural of uncertain affinity", not 1000 the number, as it is translated. To save time, I'm not going to quote the scripture but if you will insert "plural of uncertain affinity" every time you see the number 1000, you will begin to see what I'm getting ready to explain.
In the parable of the harvest, Jesus tells us that weeds are harvested first, then wheat (believers). It all happens at the end of the age where judgment is handed out and it's over for some folks. No where does He explain or verify a 1000 yr time period of waiting. Nor do any OT prophets verify a 1000 yr time frame. In fact, the scriptures you've quoted above clearly tell us that when Jesus returns, the world as we know it falls apart. We get a new one. Revelation 21 tells us that only believers inherit this new heaven and earth.....Jesus also confirms this in the parable about the ten virgins when the door is shut....no one else let in. Isaiah also confirms it, Peter as well. All of these clues tell one story....that we are harvested and judgment follows and the only ones left on earth are the saints.
The "plural of uncertain affinity" that Rev 20 is speaking about is what we call the church age.....now. Jesus told us that Satan was defeated on the cross. In John 12 Jesus says "now the prince of this world will be driven out". The cross is when the angel bound Satan (metaphorically). And the Great Tribulation is when he will be "set free for a short time".
Stay with me on this and just keep an open mind because it's going to explain the 1st resurrection and the 2nd.
If we read through Revelation, other than the 24 elders mentioned, the only other humans that John saw in heaven are martyrs, no one else, only martyrs and a lot of them...from the beginning of time, I suspect. When he asks who they are or we are given clues as to who they are, they ALL have lost their life on earth as a result of their testimony. These are a very special group of people. They are given white robes, crowns, harps. Indeed, dying a martyrs death will have great reward. These people are the 1st resurrection that is described in Rev 20. Some of them are seen in Matthew 27 as well. The 2nd resurrection is everyone else who is a believer...us. Let that sink in and reread this passage. I challenge you to read Revelation 20:1-10 with these things in mind. Throw out what you've been taught and just read it with the true meaning of the Greek. Read how Jesus is telling us that anyone who dies for keeping their testimony of Him, will have a special, and IMMEDIATE resurrection. Confirm that in Revelation 4, 6 & 7 as well as Matthew 27. Then when the short time (42 months) is ended, we also have the harvest of non believers and believers and judgment and new heaven and new earth......no waiting period, no wicked left, "nothing impure". This is the 2nd resurrection which happens after the "plural of uncertain affinity" is over.
This passage only makes sense when explained this way. The rest of scripture does not confirm a millenium, nor a waiting period before judgment, nor does it confirm that Satan will have a last showdown 1000 yrs later. In fact, the rest of scripture confirms just the opposite. It confirms what I've written above. The show is over for Satan as soon as he is defeated by Jesus' return. The earth is destroyed, we get a new one and we get a kingdom without sin, without pain, without tears, forever and forever...not to be ruled by our enemy, not even for a brief period of time( this is actually talking about the G TRIB)....but to be ruled by our Lord and given to us to possess (Dan 7)
Can of worms...I can just hear it now.....lol

marilyn      28 Sep 2011, 21:02

And btw, when Jesus comes back (only one more time) we are gathered together as part of the harvest but we do not go to heaven. No scripture tells us that. Man has made that up. Isaiah says we go to Mt Zion with our Lord to fight a battle. Zech, Zeph, Malachi, Amos, etc all confirm that. We do not leave this earth to come back at a later time. In fact, Acts 3:21 tells us that Jesus remains in heaven until it is time for God to restore everything......no waiting period in heaven.....no waiting period on earth.

Doug Buckley      29 Sep 2011, 01:44

Marilyn, actually Revelation 20 does say literally a thousand years. As far as as I know, the Greek word is a plural form of a thousand, because it's modifying the word years, which is plural. It doesn't say he's locked up for a thousand, but a thousand years, so it uses the plural form of thousand.

Second, if you continue reading, you will find out that there are lots of scriptures that support a longer period of judgment, ie a millennium. Judgment starts when Christ returns, and it STARTS at the house of the Lord (1st Peter 4.17). He will reign until his enemies are under his feet (1st Corinthians 15.25), and this will happen during the millennium, and before white throne judgment.

This is where the parable of the ten virgins fits in, when the scripture is rightly divided. You'll notice that they are denied being the bride of Christ. No where does it imply that they are the tares cast into eternal damnation. Rather they are apostate Christians in the millennium, spoken of here,

"There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out" (Luke 13.28 KJV bible).

Here is another passage, people are being denied entry, but they are not cast into the Lake of Fire. That's because there is a millennium gap between Christ's return and the second resurrection,

“Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are” (Luke 13.24-25 KJV bible).

The Old testament prophets also speak of the millennium, “…and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel” (Isaiah 60.14 KJV bible). God will not subjugate people like this in the eternity, but he will do this in the millennium.

Also saying Matthew 27 is the first resurrection is false. Paul says in first Corinthians 15 that the resurrection is into a spiritual body and will happen at the last trumpet. This is when Christ returns, confirming that the first resurrection is of believers. Otherwise you're saying that believers are the ones resurrected from Hades and death (Revelation 20.13).

Further, you'll notice that the beast and false prophet are cast in when Christ returns, then after the millennium the devil is cast in, and the other two are already there. This confirms that there will be a millennium between when Christ gets here and the white throne judgment.

The parable of the tares is like the parable of the sheep and goats, its a depiction of the white throne judgment after the believers were already resurrected before the millennium. Just because not every passage says "here is the millennium period", doesn't mean that its not there.

marilyn      29 Sep 2011, 09:28

I am still searching through everything you have written and will continue to do so. I hope you will do the same. It does neither of us any good if we hold to our beliefs without submitting them to the Word of God. After all, it matters not what you or I say. It only matters what the Lord says.

In saying all of that, I cannot help but observe that by anyone literally translating the passage in Rev 20 to mean a 1000 yr waiting period between Jesus' 2nd coming and judgment, they then will look for this waiting period in all of the other verses they read. Would you not agree? That person would submit the Prophet's writings to this new belief found in Rev thousands of yrs later.

And remember, for 1500 years (give or take a few hundred) until Messiah, men were introduced to the Torah and the writings of the prophets. They studied, learned of our beginning, learned who God is, what He expects, and what is to come. These people listened to the scrolls read in the synogogues and saw first hand how God brought salvation to earth. Jesus entered the picture and fulfilled His very Word written on these scrolls. He then explained in some detail how the story ends on earth. He did not change what was written but instead gave additional clues. Paul, Peter, and John did the same thing. They explained the Torah, the writings of the Prophets and most importantly, Jehovah. So, when I read Isaiah or Zechariah or Zephaniah or Joel or Amos or Malachi or the gospels, I keep in mind that the Holy Word of God that Paul, Peter and John are referring to is not their letters but it's what we call our Old Testament. I'm not discounting their letters as inerrant. I'm just saying that they taught from the OT and wrote letters to explain the OT. All of this means that there is not some new idea or new teaching hidden somewhere in the NT that refutes, disputes or disqualifies what was taught in the OT. Quite the contrary. The NT teaching fulfills the OT.
So when I read the Prophet's writings about the end times, I do not see at all a waiting period between Jesus' 2nd coming and judgment.
Isaiah 13:6 Wail, for the day of the LORD is near; 
 it will come like destruction from the Almighty.
9 See, the day of the LORD is coming 
 —a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger— 
to make the land desolate 
 and destroy the sinners within it. 
10 The stars of heaven and their constellations 
 will not show their light. 
The rising sun will be darkened 
 and the moon will not give its light. 
11 I will punish the world for its evil, 
 the wicked for their sins. 
I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty 
 and will humble the pride of the ruthless. 
12 I will make people scarcer than pure gold, 
 more rare than the gold of Ophir. 
13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; 
 and the earth will shake from its place 
at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, 
 in the day of his burning anger.
Zephaniah 1: 14 The great day of the LORD is near— near and coming quickly.
The cry on the day of the LORD is bitter; the Mighty Warrior shouts his battle cry.
15 That day will be a day of wrath— a day of distress and anguish,
a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness— 16 a day of trumpet and battle cry against the fortified cities and against the corner towers. 17 “I will bring such distress on all people
that they will grope about like those who are blind, because they have sinned against the LORD. Their blood will be poured out like dust and their entrails like dung. 18 Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them on the day of the LORD’s wrath.”
Amos 8 & 9, Malachi 4, Zechariah 9 & 14

And when I read Jesus' own words explaining and fulfilling what was spoken by the Prophets, I read Matthew 13:First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn...angels.
40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

And then I read Paul's words 2Thess 1: 5 All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed.

And John's words in Rev 14 explain in detail about the harvest that Jesus told us about in Matt 13. In fact, John's account follows exactly what Jesus said with great clarity.

Then we bump up against Rev 20. Do we throw a new idea in the mix? Or do we search out the discrepancy to find why it appears to contradict? I know that these words are inspired by God but I also know they were inspired in Greek, the language that John wrote, not in English. So knowing how man has the unique ability to twist and distort while translating, I'm willing to dig deeper. Yes, "chilioi" can be translated 1000 but it also has a definition that is not specific and means "a plural of uncertain affinity". It is used both ways in scripture, to mean a specific number as well as to mean an uncertain number.

As to the first resurrection, just who are the people in Matthew 27? We know with absolute certainty that they were indeed resurrected. And these "blessed" ones described in Rev 20, doesn't it make sense that if you are martyred, you get special treatment? Why didn't John see everyone who had died? Why were the only ones he saw, martyrs? Doesn't it tell you that the people of Matt 27 were also martyrs? What happened to them a month later? a yr later? Can't we assume that since Jesus tells us He has special plans for martyrs, and then shows us what is going on in heaven, that this is the 1st resurrection of believers? Everyone else (believers) are resurrected according to 2Thess. and according to Matt 13, the harvest, when Christ returns. Why would we insert a 1000 yr waiting period thereby calling the first resurrection "us" and the second resurrection "?".

I'll continue to search your scriptures but instead of coming up with a doctrine from Revelation and then making all the rest of scripture FIT that doctrine, we would be better off looking at the rest of scripture, what does it say, what is the timing it explains to us, what does Jesus say, what do all the other writers say and THEN how do we explain this new idea in Rev. as it has been translated into English?

No where in scripture are there 2 harvests. There is only one. Jesus, Himself, told us how the harvest is accomplished....once.....for ALL. And then judgment. There is not another opportunity, the door is shut, no 2nd harvest 1000 yrs later. To hold to that millenial teaching, again, you have to submit all of scripture to the way you are interpreting Rev 20. On the flip side, if you interpret Rev 20 as I stated above, everything written down by John confirms everything written down by every other writer in scripture, OT and NT, including Jesus, Himself.

Doug Buckley      30 Sep 2011, 19:46

The problem isn't with the millennium of Revelation 20, or the bible. The problem is that you made several assumptions about the timing of Christ's return and final judgment.

Lot's of people read passages like Daniel 12.1-3, and similar passages, and make the assumption that the second resurrection happens immediately when Christ returns.

This would be fair, except there are lots of other scriptures that tell us there will be two resurrections and a millennium period between them.

1st Thess. 4.13-17 describes Christ's return at the last trumpet, and the dead in Christ rising and gathering to him. Also Matthew 24 and 2nd Thessalonians 2.1 speak of only the elect being gathered to Christ at his return. In Acts, Paul makes clear that ALL the dead resurrect. So if some are excluded then there must be a second resurrection, just like Revelation 20 tells us. Whether you want to call this two harvests or not is up to you.

This is why Paul says that there is an order to the resurrection of the dead, "But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruit; afterward those of Christ at His coming. Then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father, when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power" (1st Corinthians 15.23-24 KJV bible).

Paul doesn't mention the second resurrection, but remember, ALL the dead resurrect.

So there is an order of Christ, the saints, and then nonbelievers. Nonbelievers will resurrect after the millennium, because this is when Christ delivers the Kingdom to his Father (Revelation 20.12 the dead stand before God). So Christ and his elect rule throughout the millennium.

You misunderstood what you read in your Strong's concordance. An affinity has nothing to do with a measure time. All the translators translate it as a thousand years because that's what it says, and the word millennium just means a thousand years.

Yes Christ will unleash fire and judgment when he returns as 2nd Thess. 5 and Zephaniah 1 describe. There will be the battle of Armageddon, and he will pour out wrath on nonbelievers, but this is not the final judgment which is after the millennium and when he turns the Kingdom over to the Father. First, he will shepherd them with a rod of iron like Revelation 19.15 tells us.

The millennium is in the OT, Ezekiel 44+ speaks of a pure priesthood reigning over heathen or unclean nations. These chapters are not like the eternity of Revelation, but certainly nothing like them can happen till after Christ conquers the nations. The millennium is in the bible.

Marilyn Nave      01 Oct 2011, 07:06

Doug, with all due respect, I have made NO assumptions as to the Lord's timing; I have only read and recanted what scripture says. In fact, it seems that Isaiah, Zephaniah, the Psalmist, Amos, Zechariah, Malachi, Joel, Jesus, Paul, Peter and John, ALL agree that when Christ returns, judgment happens. It is exactly as Jesus described in the parable of the harvest.

Again, we need to stop trying to insert a 1000 yr waiting period into these verses. It is not there. Let scripture speak for itself without adding or taking away. And when we scratch our heads about Rev 20, submit those 6 verses to the other 100+ instead of submitting 100+ to those 6, thereby creating a contradiction with almost every OT prophet as well as God, Himself.

Isaiah 13: 4 Listen, a noise on the mountains, like that of a great multitude! 
Listen, an uproar among the kingdoms, like nations massing together! 
The LORD Almighty is mustering an army for war. 
5 They come from faraway lands, from the ends of the heavens— 
the LORD and the weapons of his wrath— 
 to destroy the whole country 6 Wail, for the day of the LORD is near; 
 it will come like destruction from the Almighty.9 See, the day of the LORD is coming 
 —a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger— 
to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.

Isaiah 34:2 The LORD is angry with all nations; his wrath is on all their armies. He will totally destroy them, he will give them over to slaughter. 3 Their slain will be thrown out, their dead bodies will stink; the mountains will be soaked with their blood. 4 All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll;

Zephaniah 1: 14The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.15That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,16A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.17And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.18Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

Zephaniah 3: 8Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. 9For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

Psalm 37: 10For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.11But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.12The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth. 13The LORD shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.

Amos 8: 1Thus hath the Lord GOD shewed unto me: and behold a basket of summer fruit.2And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.3And the songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Lord GOD: there shall be many dead bodies in every place; they shall cast them forth with silence.

Amos 9: 8Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD. 9For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.10All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

Zechariah 9: 14And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the LORD God shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.15The LORD of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones;

Zechariah 14: 4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: … 12And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Malachi 4:1For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.2But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of their stall.3And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Joel 2: 1Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitance of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; 2A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.3A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

Luke 17: 26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. … 34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

1Thessalonians 5:2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2Thessalonians 1:7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

2Thessalonians 2: 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

2Peter 3: 2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour 3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation…. 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. … 10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.14Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Revelation 14: 6And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. … 14And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.16And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.17And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.19And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.20And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Marilyn Nave      01 Oct 2011, 07:35

forgot to mention Daniel
Daniel 12:1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.



If all of these scriptures do not PROVE that there is one harvest as Jesus told in His parable, and that it happens exactly as He said it would and as John said in Rev 14, I don't know what else to say. In fact, there isn't anything else to say.

As far as there being different timing as to resurrections, I stated earlier that we know for certain that those people in Matthew 27 were resurrected. We also know that Elijah and Enoch were. We can also glean that Moses has been, since he appeared with Elijah speaking to Jesus, and Michael disputed for his body. AND we know that the multitudes that John saw in heaven that were martyred have been resurrected. I'm sure there are more. Revelation 20 is simply stating that they have a special blessing.......as they should. "the rest of the dead did not come to life until the plural of uncertain affinity was ended" This is speaking about the church age. The dead WILL come to life when this age is over, when Christ returns...some to everlasting life, some to everlasting contempt. He told us so in the parable of the harvest as well. Those that are unbelievers (weeds) will be gathered first. This confirms Luke's gospel where one will disappear. Remember he says it's like in the days of Noah when the flood came and destroyed the sinners. The angels will come and swing the sickle, as John puts it. That leaves only the righteous left, both alive and dead. The righteous dead will rise first and then those that are alive will be changed, caught up, taken to Mt Zion as Isaiah describes for a great battle, where judgment concludes.

Then ALL the other scriptures that talk about the new heaven and new earth and "only those that are blameless will enter in", make sense. Proverbs likens it to a silversmith, "remove the dross from the silver and out comes material for the silversmith. Remove the wicked from the King's presence and His throne will be established through righteousness". And the psalmist says "the righteous will inherit the land and dwell in it forever. Wait for the Lord and keep His way. He will exalt you to inherit the land when the wicked are cut off, you will see it." EXACTLY as Jesus says in the parable about 2 people being in a field, one taken, one left.

marilyn      01 Oct 2011, 10:03

and btw, in Revelation 20, John saw "thrones". In chapter 4, he says there are 24 of them. In Luke 22, Jesus tells the 12 that they will occupy 12 of these thrones. The other 12 are not clearly defined; only that there are 24 and they are called "elders". Anyway, back to Rev 20, only those on the thrones and those martyred are clearly described as "come to life" and these are the 1st resurrection; no others. No dead in Christ (died without being martyred) nor alive in Christ are part of this group being described. This also gives us a clue that the 1000 years is not really a literal time frame and also it is not a time frame that happens after the return of Christ. These "come to life" ones are already resurrected. The passage clearly tells us so.

The passage then tells us that the rest of the dead (all the rest of mankind, including dead in Christ and dead in sin) did not come to life until the 1000 yrs (church age) is ended. BINGO, as I said before....fits exactly with all OT prophecy AND with Jesus' parables. We don't have to go looking for a "pause" in the rest of the bible to explain these verses. They've just been misinterpreted.

Doug Buckley      01 Oct 2011, 16:15

You have to take the bible as a whole, not just parts. If some of the bible describes a millennium period like Ezekiel 44+ and Revelation 20 and Luke 13 then you have to include that. If you want to reject Revelation 20 that's fine with me, but it actually explains the plan of God and Judgment Day perfectly well.

First, Matthew 27 is not about the resurrection of the dead.

Paul says:

"And their word will eat like a gangrene; among whom are Hymeneus and Philetus,
who have erred concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past, and who overthrow the faith of some" (2nd Timothy 2.17-18 KJV bible).

Elijah and Enoch went to heaven, that's not the resurrection of the dead. Read 1st Corinthians 15 what Paul has to say about the resurrection. He says it will happen at the last trumpet, which is when Christ returns and that Christ is first.

1st Corinthians 15.22-23, Christ is FIRST, not Enoch and Elijah. 1st Corinthians 15.52 at the last trumpet, same as 1st Thess and Revelation 20. All the saints resurrect. Its the same event, just some come from heaven and others from earth.

What about Ezekiel 44-48. Is it the eternity? Why does the eternity in Revelation describe something different. Maybe God's plan for a new heavens and earth is not immediate when Christ returns.

The fact that a passage doesn't include every detail doesn't mean something isn't there. The whole point is that you compare and bring together the different parts because the go together, just like Daniel and Revelation compliment eachother.

That's how prophecy is supposed to be read, its visions of future periods of time, not every detail is in every passage.

None of the verses you quoted contradict a millennium. THE DAY OF THE LORD IS NOT A LITERAL 24 HOUR DAY, ITS A PERIOD OF TIME THAT INCLUDES THE MILLENNIUM. 2nd Peter which you quoted says that with the Lord, one day is as a thousand years.

Jesus going to war and striking down the nations is nothing like the white throne judgment where Revelation says God the Father will sit.

Pauls says judgment STARTS with the house of God, because Jesus told us this:

"And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more (Luke 12.47-48 KJV bible).

This is NOT the white throne judgment, it can't be. Why, because Daniel 2.2 and Revelation 20.13 describe something different, where nonbelievers are judged by works. Are believers in Hades, of course not, so its not believers who are raised in the white throne judgment.

Jesus Christ first reigns and then delivers the Kingdom to the Father just like Paul tells us,

"For it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet.
The last enemy made to cease is death" (1st Corinthian 15.25-26 KJV bible). This is the millennium. No one has all the details about it, but the millennium is in there.

Doug Buckley      01 Oct 2011, 16:35

Also, notice that Revelation 20 says death is destroyed in the white throne judgment, which is after the millennium (the millennium is when the saints rule with Christ). So just like 1st Corinthians 15 says, Christ reigns UNTIL all his enemies are under his feet. This is the millennium period.

Lots of scholars see it your way, but there is some strong biblical support for a millennium.

marilyn      01 Oct 2011, 22:56

ok, Doug, lets just take this point by point

According to Revelation 20:4 and only Revelation 20:4, WHO is part of the first resurrection?

Lets not add or take away from what scripture says, let's just state it as it is written.

Doug Buckley      02 Oct 2011, 03:24

We are simply at an impasse on this, because we from different schools of thought and interpret the bible differently. It's not Revelation 20.4 by itself, but Revelation 20.4 in the context of Revelation, and fitted together with the other passages about the first resurrection.

Marilyn      02 Oct 2011, 09:30

I know that, Doug. Don't leave this conversation now. So many people can be blessed by this. And who knows, you or I could open our eyes where we've been blind. That's our ultimate goal isn't it? I THRIVE on truth....it's just my "thing". I think it's your "thing" too or you wouldn't have this website.

God gifts all of us uniquely AND if I've learned anything over the years, it's that no ONE person has all the gifts. He designed the body of Christ to work together. In fact, the body parts are not able to function solo. They REQUIRE the other parts. We don't know who else might join this conversation if we take it one step at a time. I want that blessing. I must have that blessing because my ultimate goal is understanding scripture. I think we are a lot alike in that regard.

I'm not trying to play "gotcha". I'm simply wanting to throw out everything we've been taught and let the bible speak. We have to start somewhere. We might as well start here in Revelation 20:4.

In studying the bible over the years, I have found that our wisest attitude toward studying scripture is to remember that it's TRUE, ........all of it. We don't want to discount or ignore parts of it, that seem to conflict, because THEY are true as well. So, when we come at it from that perspective and ask the Holy Spirit to open our minds to understand, it puts us in a learning posture instead of a defending posture.

If we answer the question about "who" is part of the first resurrection according to Revelation 20:4, then we can go to 1 Corinthians 15 and Matthew 13. What we are going to find (if we jump ahead) is a conflict. We're going to be tempted to throw out Revelation 20:5, the very next verse, in order to make 1 Corinthians 15 fit. And we're going to come up with all kinds of conflict with Matthew 13.

But remember, ALL OF IT IS TRUE. We can't throw out Revelation 20:5 anymore than we can throw out 1 Cor 15 OR Matt 13. So........how do we understand the story that's being told???????? We submit, first and foremost. This isn't our story. This is the Lord's. And He is sovereign enough to have written His word without conflict. We just need to search it out. Not commentary, just scripture. Let's dig.......to show ourselves approved.

Either, 1 Corinthians 15 is saying something else to us and not really explaining exact timing, or Jesus left out a big piece of the puzzle in Matthew 13, or Revelation 20 is talking about something else entirely with respect to this period of time. Aren't all of those real possibilities? And don't you think that others who are visiting this site may also have more possibilities we haven't thought of?

I believe with all of my heart that our enemy is real and absolutely does not want this conversation taking place. But I'm not going down without a fight. I suspect you won't either and I'm hoping others will join in.

Carl      02 Oct 2011, 16:31

Doug and Marilyn
From what little I know, I think both of you are qualified to discuss your subject to a stand off and lose me but it is getting to be rather boring. So, just drop me or change the subject to something that will just help me get there, not worry whether there is one, or two, or more fences to jump once qualify.

Doug Buckley      02 Oct 2011, 16:36

I've stated my beliefs on this subject very clearly, and you've stated yours. In fact, Revelation 20 and 1st Corinthians 15 are among the most commonly quoted verses on this website. I've listened to your position that there is no millennium in Revelation 20, that Matthew 27 is part of the resurrection of the dead, and that the white throne judgment happens immediately when Christ returns. I've addressed what you've said, but you haven't addressed the verses and points that I've presented? I can tell by the tone of the discussion you are unfamiliar with alot of what I teach on these subjects.

We are not operating from the same set of facts and principles here. The enemy thrives on this kind of confusion, and these conflicting messages in the church. Not saying this is your fault, but at this point, people can decide for themselves whether or not there is a millennium, which is the original discussion.

marilyn      02 Oct 2011, 17:48

hmmmm.......too bad.....isn't there anyone on this forum who cannot just let it rest? Anyone who doesn't find "contending for the faith" to be boring? Sorry Carl, I explained that this is just my "thing" and I totally get it that it's not exciting for everyone. But on this particular question, it does happen to be the subject matter.

After all, this isn't about us. This is about understanding TRUTH. Maybe I'm not understanding. Maybe you're not understanding. Not willing to dig????? And yes, Doug, I did study every verse you addressed. I just did not argue each one because we had not even agreed to the interpretation of the original verses in Rev 20. And to be honest, I felt the exact same thing about you. You were not addressing what I wrote. That's why I thought it best to slow down and go verse by verse.

On a side note, if the book of Revelation was somehow lost and we were not able to read it, had not ever read it, you and i would not be able to find a 1000 year waiting period between Messiah's 2nd coming and judgment, spoken about anywhere in the rest of scripture. Unless I'm just blind and missing what you've cited altogether, you've only tried to validate this 1000 yr period with an assumption that it is in there. You've not actually found any teaching that describes it or substantiates that doctrine as a stand alone doctrine outside of the book of Revelation and those verses in chapter 20. That's virtually unheard of in the bible. I cannot think of any doctrine that isn't taught over and over. I looked up all your scripture references. 1 Peter doesn't teach it, 1 Cor doesn't, it's not in Luke, Isaiah, Matthew, 1 or 2nd Thess. It's not mentioned in Ezekial or 2nd Timothy.....all these are scriptures you wrote down. You've simply assumed it's true and then you're trying to find a very long pause in those scriptures or you're trying to find some kind of activity that you feel would be consistent with what you think might happen in a millenial kingdom. Isn't that a fair statement?

So.......if you're not willing to reason, explain and/or prove (Paul did every time he went into a new city), then how do we ever change our position? Both of us are not right. Maybe it's me. Maybe you can show me how you've proved your conclusions and how they make sense when they contradict with other scriptures.

Col 1:28 He is the one we proclaim, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ. 29 To this end, I strenuously contend with all the energy Christ so powerfully works in me.

2Tim 4:1 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Lynda from Maine      08 Oct 2011, 12:45

This is some of what I have studied and believe to be true concerning the Millennium age, or 1000 year period spoken about mostly in Isaiah and Ezekiel.

On the first day of the millenniun age, Christ's first fruits, thoes of the elect that did not follow antichrist will receive their rewardsand inheritance in the kingdom of God. They will be joint heirs with Christ. and not only will they be in their incorruptible bodies, they will also receive immorality.Whic we read about in 1 Corinnthians 15:53.

The election of God victory comes at the seventh trumpet, however all souls thatwere not saved and followed satan the antichrist must wait until after the judgement of
revelation 20:13-15, and then thoes that were found worthy by their works performed in the thousand year millennium age will be given immorality.All others go into the lake of fire with satan and his realm.
Rev. 20:13
" And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and hell delivered up the dead that were in them and they were judged every man according to their works".
And before anyone says something about the word sea, remember in the book of Revelation the Lord said seas and waters were people and nations.

I continue, Here is something to think about.
1 Cor. 15:51; "Behold, I shew you a mystey, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed" "sleep here is "die", change doesn't mean rapture,but changed from our physical bodies to our spiritual bodies.1Cor.15:52.
The changing of our physical bodies into spiritual boodies like the angles have happens at the seventh trumpet. this is after satan has ruled over the one world system as antichrist, and all souls living in this generation right now have been tested. It is a time that thoes that have tried to waste God'schildren as well as all evil will be done away with.
Isaiah 49:18
"Lift up thine eyes round about and behold all these gatherthemselves together, and come to thee,"As I live saith the Lord," thousurley clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth".
This will happen on the first day of the millennium age at the second advent and every knee shat bow to Jesus Christ. This is the only gathering that shall be, however by the end of the Millenniun age, many will fail again.
Isaiah 45:23
" I havesworrnby myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow,every tongue shall swear"
Every tongue means even the evil doers will bow to Christ on that day or they will not be here.When they see Christ;s love and mercy. they will bow to Him. The judgement at the end of the Millenniun will decide how many continue on with Christ or fell away.

God is always fair and thoes who cannot possibly figure out the truth in this crazy time becaue of all the twisting of the word and flat out fakes will have a chance to make a choice without the influnce of the evil one for 1000 years. After that is another subject.


this is what I have gotten from my study of the Millenniun age.

God Bless, Bye

Doug Buckley      08 Oct 2011, 12:49

Hi Lynda, good to hear from you. People are all over the place on the millennium. There's alot of scholars who don't believe in a millennium, but they usually believe in soul sleep. What's most disturbing to me is how quick pastors and churches are to throw all nonbelievers into eternal hell, when the bible says so many times that the elect will reign over the nations.

MICK      05 Feb 2012, 17:28

hi doug, so pls tell me, that all those who have died if not saved will have a chance to be taught in the millenium of the LORD and given the chance to follow the LORD or fall away before the great white throne judgement, what i am saying will all non believers be there at and thru the millenium learning from the pure priesthood of saints and given a chance to accept the LORD?

Doug Buckley      07 Feb 2012, 02:20

Hi Mick, I've studied the millennium for a long time now, and all the different interpretations of it. I do believe that souls of the the unsaved will be in the millennium. I know this teaching is more complicated than what churches teach, but there's alot of support for it.

When Jesus returns the world is destroyed, and he gathers his elect to him (1st Thessalonians 4.13-17). This is the start of the millennium, and the millennium doesn't end until the white throne Judgment (Revelation 20).

Then, who are the people that Jesus rebukes from him, and are in the outer darkness?, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matthew 7.22.23 KJV bible).

Thus, the souls of the dead are around in the millennium period. They cannot be "saved" until judgment day, but they are in the millennium for a purpose. Please read the rest of this article for more on this.