the cup of wrath
  Articles/Essays Bible Questions Risen from the Dust Bible Videos About Support

(search cupofwrath.com)

Disembodied Souls

  • There is debate about the existence of human souls in the bible.
  • There are many passages that support the existence of human souls.
  • Some of the most important ones depict the disembodied souls of individuals who have passed away.

Some biblical passages depict disembodied human souls.

In the previous chapter, we looked at various Hebrew and Greek words that support the concept of human souls in the bible. Moving away from our study of these different spiritual words, there are several passages that in-and-of themselves "lock in" the existence of human souls.

One such passage is from Isaiah, where we are given a future vision of Sheol, "Hell [Sheol] from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?" (Isaiah 14.9-10 KJV bible). This passage is important because it describes the disembodied souls of the dead being "stirred up", as part of a future prophecy. A similar verse is in Ezekiel, where he depicts the souls of the dead speaking out from their place, "The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell [Sheol] with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword" (Ezekiel 32.21 KJV bible).

There are also many persuasive verses in the New Testament, that acknowledge the existence of human souls. In the gospel of Mark, both Moses and Elijah are witnessed by the disciples talking with Jesus on the Mt. of Transfiguration, "And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them. And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus...For he [Peter] wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid" (Mark 9.2-4 KJV bible). Unless one is to argue that something absurd was going on such as a mass hallucination or hologram, the only conclusion to be drawn from this is that the disembodied souls of both Moses and Elijah were present on the mountain with Jesus. Apparently, the disciples were convinced of this as well, even to the point of being terrified.

We can draw many other examples of human souls from the New Testament. For example, in the book of Luke, we are given a vision of the hereafter in which three individuals are identified as disembodied souls, "And in hell [Hades] he [the rich man] lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame" (Luke 16.23-24 KJV bible). Another example is in Revelation, where the disembodied souls of people who have passed on are depicted in heaven, "And they [the elders] sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" (Revelation 5.9 KJV bible), (see also Revelation 6.9-10, and 7.9-10).

In 2nd Corinthians, Paul describes being taken up to the third heaven, and speaking of himself he says, "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven" (2nd Corinthians 12.2 KJV bible). Paul is saying that he was taken up to the third heaven, either in his own mind through a vision from God, or via his soul leaving his body and going there. By mentioning this second possible scenario, "or whether out of the body", he is acknowledging that his center of consciousness lies within an immaterial soul dwelling within his flesh body. Further, he is acknowledging that this soul continues on apart from the body, as would be the case if he went to the third heaven apart from his body. This is why in Philippians, Paul speaks of desiring to depart from the flesh and be with Christ, "But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better. Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you" (Philippians 1.22-24 KJV bible), (see also 2nd Corinthians 5.2-9).

Likewise, Peter implies that his spiritual soul is the center of his being, when he describes the putting off of his earthly tent or dwelling, "Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me" (2nd Peter 1.14 KJV bible). He also speaks of the gospel being declared unto the dead, "For for this cause was the gospel preached [Greek: euaggelizo - to announce good news] also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit" (1st Peter 4.6 KJV bible). This delivering of good news to the dead, indicates that they must exist in a disembodied spiritual state.

Comments

Lynda      19 Oct 2010, 11:09

Does the word of God say anything about what our souls do everyday in heaven? I mean is it like the first earth age when we ate and drank and worked with our families? Or is there a great hall where eveyone is just waiting for God to finish his plan? What are they doing?

Doug Buckley      20 Oct 2010, 13:03

Hi Lynda, there are some passages in Revelation, but nothing too definitive. Time might even pass by faster in heaven, since a day with the Lord is as a thousand years (2nd Peter 3.8). The important thing is that the souls in heaven are waiting to return here with Christ. Revelation 6.10-11 depicts disembodied souls in heaven during the tribulation period, and they are waiting for the time when Christ will avenge them upon the earth.

David      24 Jul 2011, 20:30

Brother Doug suggested that I look at this page, but I do not quite agree with most of the examples here, so I will offer an alternative interpretation. Isaiah 14:9-10 probably refers to the resurrection in which all the dead will be raised, because God will cause Hades to give up the dead in it. Ezek 32:21 is either similar or just figurative like Abel speaking in Heb 11:4. Moses and Elijah talked with Jesus because God had raised Moses out of death (Elijah did not die). The physically dead in the scriptures are never considered souls (beings) until they are raised. Luke 16 is probably partially figurative because there is no clear second witness. Rev 5:9 refers to resurrected believers. 2 Cor 12:2 and Phlp 1:22-24 and 2 Pet 1:14 are indeed clear evidence that the body was never considered a part of the person himself, and we also know that visions have always been seen in spirit. 1 Pet 4:6 does not refer to the physically dead but the ones who are dead in God's eyes because of sin (Gen 2:17, Luke 15:24, John 5:25, 6:57, 10:10, Rom 6:11-13, 8:10, Eph 2:1-9). Rev 6:10-11, like most of Revelation, is partially figurative.

Doug Buckley      25 Jul 2011, 14:38

David, here are my reasons for believing in disembodied souls,
Isaiah 14.9-10 is about the king of Babylon (name for devil) being cast into the abyss during the millennium, which is before the resurrection of the dead (Revelation 20). The same holds true for Revelation 5.9 and 6.10-11, because it is during the tribulation which is before the resurrection.

We know that Moses and Elijah are not spiritually resurrected (1st Corinthians 15.44) because Christ is the firstfruits. They cannot be in heaven in flesh bodies because heaven is a spiritual place, and they would grow old and die. Luke 16 is a legitimate description of disembodied souls in Hades, because even if Jesus is telling a "parable" he never tells impossible or misleading scenarios in his parables.

2nd Corinthians 12.2, Philippians 1.22-24 etc, are some of the strongest evidence for disembodied souls because if the flesh was center of our consciousness it wouldn't make sense to describe departing from it or leaving it. With 1st Peter 4.6 he says they will be judged as men in the flesh, which is not saved (also see 1st Peter 3.19).

I wish Chrstians would focus more on the resurrection of the dead and judgment day, but I do believe in a kind of disembodied soul (not immortal) that continues on after literal death.

David      26 Jul 2011, 05:06

Dear Doug,


I believe it is difficult enough to come to a consensus about what Revelation reveals, but Isa 14:9-10 may be referring to the final execution of God's judgement in Rev 20:10-15. Furthermore we cannot claim that Isa 14 is completely literal because it is clear from the rest of the chapter that it was also referring to a human king. Rev 5:9 and 6:10-11 is probably not in chronological order with the rest of Revelation.

It is not accurate to translate 1 Cor 15:23 with "first-fruits", for the Greek word actually means "first-offering". (I think you meant this verse rather than 1 Cor 15:44.) Neither Moses and Elijah were first-offerings, but Christ offered up himself on the cross as a first-offering to God. I believe that we cannot take Jesus' parables too literally because many times their constituents do not correspond perfectly to spiritual things. His focus in the parable in Luke 16 is clearly on recompense for evil. Besides, why is "father Abraham" implied to have authority to send Lazarus to the rich man's house?

2 Cor 12:2, Phlp 1:22-24 and 2 Pet 1:14 does not mention a soul that leaves a body but rather the person himself leaving his body because his body is not really part of him but just his tabernacle of flesh, a temporary dwelling place.

As I said earlier, 1 Pet 4:6 does not refer to the physically dead. Moreover the phrase "in the flesh" is in contrast to "in the spirit" and does not mean "inside the flesh/spirit" but rather "according to the flesh/spirit". The Greek construction often denotes agency rather than position (see John 4:24, 5:43 for examples).

Like you, I do believe that God will raise the dead with a spiritual body, and they will have a spiritual soul/being. However, I do not think the scriptures reveal that the soul is a separate part of us but rather just refers to us ourselves. God made man's body of flesh from the dust of the ground and formed the spirit of man within him, and man came to be a living soul/being. All will sleep and return to the dust from which we were taken (Gen 3:19, Psa 6:5, 30:9, 88:10) but God will return all to their consciousness in the last day, some waking to eternal life and some to eternal condemnation (Dan 12:2, Isa 26:19).


Grace be with you,
David

Doug Buckley      26 Jul 2011, 14:33

Hi David, a couple points, 1st Corinthians 15.44 was to point out that the resurrection is into spiritual bodies, which you agree with anyways.
1st Cor. 15 is about the resurrection of the dead. My point was that it indicates that Christ is the first one to partake in the resurrection of the dead, which I explain more in chapters 15 and 16. My main point with Luke 16 is the spiritual context in which the word "hades" is used, but certainly there is alot going on in that passage.

There's obviously alot more to cover, but IMO the resurrection of the dead is divided into two parts, and these parts correspond to different parts of judgment day, and the millennium is also tied into this. If you read through the later chapters of the book, or my article on the millennium you'll better see where I am coming from. God bless

Robert      04 Sep 2011, 15:49

Part of my confusion and Iam sure lots of christians, but I can only speak for myself, get a little confused when the bible says that the dead know nothing, which sounds like lights out completly could you please elaborate on this passage are you conscience after death or not.

Doug Buckley      05 Sep 2011, 04:58

Yeah, there's plenty of verses that seem to support the dead being unconscious or not having souls. The people who believe this aren't pulling it out of thin air, but alot of these verses can be explained easier than the ones that support human souls.

Ecclesiastes is probably not the best source of information about the afterlife. It's definitely scripture, but its focus is more on the man that walks under the sun, which is to say our lives in the flesh. As far as Ecclesiastes 9.5, the dead, especially the dead in Sheol, are in a degraded state and not as conscious as we are. I wouldn't say they literally know nothing, but Solomon is saying that they are disconnected from the world and have no part in it. They have none of the information and knowledge of the world that we perceive through our flesh senses and process with our brains. He's making a point that we should be thankful for little things, and take time to smell the flowers.

David Lim      05 Sep 2011, 06:32

Dear Robert,

As brother Doug has mentioned, the focus of each portion of the scriptures is far more important than what may appear to be side issues included. Even though we may disagree slightly about what happens upon our death, we definitely do affirm that God will raise the dead, both the righteous and unrighteous, and then they will be judged. In my opinion therefore, the old testament focuses on the fact that we should praise God while our breath remains in us, and serve him while our strength remains in us, and love him while our soul remains in us. But since Jesus Christ has come and taken away our sins, and has cast out fear of punishment, having died and lived, we have departed out of the death into the life. Hence we have this hope secured in the promise of age-enduring life in Jesus Christ our lord, which the holy ones before Christ could only see from afar, but in which life we now even live. (Gal 2:20)

Peace be with you,
David

Lynda      19 Sep 2011, 12:01

Lynda Sept.19, 2011

Another Witness to our souls living after our flesh bodies die in in the Apocrypha, Second book of Esdras, chapter 7. starting at about verse 78, it tells seven events that take place immediately after death, or when the soul leaves the flesh body. Anyone who wants to study the subject more might find the book of Esdras interesting and informative. You know the Nicene council decided not to include Esdras in the bible.However I found it to be a excellent second witness to the word of our father God. Lynda

Robert      07 Oct 2011, 21:21

Dear, Bro.Doug and Bro.David, thanks for your response to my question, are the dead conscience or not. I have another question, I have had spiritual encounters from those that have passed on, which was a little creepy, but was a beautiful encounter that I feel priviledged to have expierienced. When I mention this to some christians, their first respons is, what I expierenced were demons pretending to be a friend or loved one. If thats the case then satan screwed up because it drew me closer than ever to the Lord and let me know that this is not all there is. Can the dead visit the living, can some souls become trapped earth bound spirits and how can you tell when they are demons which the bible warns us about.

Doug Buckley      08 Oct 2011, 02:06

Hi Robert, its hard to say what exactly you experienced. Demons are disembodied souls of some kind. They are disembodied souls that have come out of the Abyss which is related to Hades (Luke 8.31 and Romans 10.7) (see bible question on demons). Unless a spirit is from God you really don't want anything to do with it, and even then it says Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

If your loved one was a devout Christian I think I would feel better about it. Spiritual experiences are experiences and can turn us toward good or evil. Perhaps a saint can pass a message onto a loved one from heaven, that they are alright, but there are no examples of this that I can think of. Perhaps they can linger a bit before they go on, but again no examples of this.

David Lim      08 Oct 2011, 04:53

Dear brother Robert,

As brother Doug has said, unless a spirit is from God, you should not have anything to do with it, and in this the spirit of God is known: every spirit which confesses Jesus Christ who has come in flesh is out of God and every spirit which does not confess Jesus Christ who has come in flesh is not out of God. The fact that you felt "creepy" indicates that whatever you saw is almost surely not from God. It is possible that evil spirits may want to mislead you in some way by showing you some things which are actually not true, and whatever is not true is not in God. If that ever happens again, immediately ask God about it and test the spirits whether they are out of God, and do not believe them unless the spirit of God confirms them. If we seek God, the spirit which he gave to us teaches us all things, and we will know if something is of God. If my interpretation is correct, all the dead sleep until God raises the dead, and if so, none of them can communicate with those who are still living. There appears to have been only one exception that God allowed and in that exception the one who was brought up from the dead said, "Why have you disturbed me to bring me up?" So apart from Jesus Christ, who lives and is not among the dead, I do not think we should give any heed to anything that seem to be from the dead.

Peace be with you,
David

Doug Buckley      09 Oct 2011, 14:16

David makes some good points, and it all boils down to only God and Christ being our light in the darkness.

Lea      22 Oct 2011, 13:50

I don't see how there can be a debate as to whether humans have souls or not. It's clear in scripture that we have them. Understanding the difference between spirit and soul is another matter. The Word can divide the spirit from the soul (Heb 4:12). The question I have is, where in scripture does it say that the soul can live eternally if it does not have a body? The spirit is the only eternal part of our being (for those who have accepted Christ). If people are suffering in hell (whichever place of hell you choose, there are four in the scriptures), how can they be if they are not eternal beings? Scripture says that the souls dies or is destroyed but I don't know where it says that it lives on. I can only think of few places where we would get the concept of eternal torment, the story of Lazarus and the rich man (which is a story that we are not certain really happened), and maybe the transfiguration on the mount might indicate disembodied souls. any others
??

Doug Buckley      23 Oct 2011, 06:23

Hi Lea, I agree that the bible teaches that people have souls or spirits that continue on after they die. There is another school of thought that says people don't have souls and only exist in the flesh. We have to be careful because the words that are often translated as soul in the bible don't mean soul like we think of it.

The bible doesn't say anywhere that souls are immortal, just that they continue on after the flesh dies. Christian souls have eternal life, just like Jesus promises to all those who believe in him. This means that they dwell in a state of life with Christ in heaven. The souls of nonbelievers don't go to heaven, but go to Hades, where they are trapped in a state of spiritual death. This doesn't mean that they don't exist, but that they are spiritually dead and estranged from God. The rich man in Luke 16 is tormented in Hades (in the Greek) because of his sins, which are not forgiven.

However none of this will last forever. At the end of the world, nonbelieving souls will be resurrected from Hades and judged according to their works (see Revelation 20). It tells us that death and Hades give up the souls that are in them. This is also the same event of Daniel 12.2. Some of them will receive eternal life, but the rest will receive eternal damnation in the Lake of Fire (see ch.29). So the Lake of Fire (also called Gehenna) is a second hell that is different from the current hell of Hades. All this makes sense only when we look at the different Greek words that are translated as hell.

Dianne      29 Dec 2011, 03:43

Hi, I am trying to learn all I can about Death and Heaven. There is some contreversy on whether we go to Heaven as believers when we die or if we just sleep in the ground until the 2nd coming. My Mom just passed away recently and she was 100% believer in God. She raised me to be a believer, but I cannot say that I am, as I can't seem to believe what I can't see. Lately, I've had some things happening around the house that are unexplained. My question is this...If when we die we are just asleep, is it possible for the dead to dream in this state and can they visit the people they loved here? If there are 3 heavens, which one would my Mom be in if she's not just napping? Can she visit me from Heaven? She died suddenly and unexpectedly. She believed she would survive the surgery, which she did only to suffer a freak complication the next morning which ultimately over the corse of 5 days caused brain death. I need answers to where she is and whether or not I'm losing it when I feel her presence or things are distinctively moved in my house without explaination. I believe that there is a God, and I believe that there are things that can't be explained but my Aunt says that if I'm thinking that my Mom is still around me, it's of the devil and that it's impossible. Please help me. I'm trying to find the truth.

Doug Buckley      29 Dec 2011, 04:00

Hi Dianne, I moved your question over here because Robert asked a very similar question already, so please read the previous posts. The souls of the dead go to either Hades or heaven. The dead do have souls and so its possible they could contact or communicate with the living, if God allows it. The problem is that there isn't alot of precedent for this in the bible. In Luke 16 the rich man asks Abraham to send Lazarus to his brothers, and Abraham says that they have the prophets and Moses. That is the best advice that someone who is dead could give to someone who is living; read the scriptures and put your trust in them, because they are the answer. The souls of the dead can't help beyond this.

Dianne      29 Dec 2011, 09:04

Hi Doug, Thank you for your response. I did read the other posts and have to say I think I may be even more confused. As I said before there is so much disagreement on what really happens after death, that it's really hard to determine what to believe. Some believe as you do, that we go straight to Heaven, others believe we are in a peaceful sleep state awaiting God's return. I am not familiar with books and verses, I only know the statements my Mom made. One verse that makes me believe that we go straight to Heaven is one that states something like because we are saved we are void of Judgement. To me that means that the souls that are in Hades will face judgement day but the ones who served God while they were here don't have to wait for judgement because they won't be judged. Am I right about this and if so what is the book and chapter? As far as my last post, I have had beautiful experiences, one of which I truly believe was my Mom being allowed by God to comfort me. My Mom was all I had in this world. She was my everything. She lived with me for the last 11 1/2 years. She was my best friend, my teacher, my preacher, my coffee in the morning, Phone calls on break at work, the one who greated me when I came home and my hug and "I love you" at night. I was completely devistated when I lost her, even thought of suicide more than once. It ultimately put me on this journey searching for God and the truth. I've always had a hard time with faith and believing in things I can't see, but this loving experience I had made me realize that there is more. I was standing in my kitchen doing a task that my Mom and I did together everyday. I had been begging God to just let me know she is okay. I was crying that morning because her absence was so profound at that moment. All of a sudden I felt this warm, static like feeling focused in the middle of my back and seemed to slowly go through my whole body. I wasn't scared or "freaked out" because I just knew my Mom was giving me a "Heavenly Hug" I didn't want to move and I stood there until it subsided because I didn't want her to leave or think that I was scared. Afterward, I felt a sadness but a peace. Some other things have happened that did kind of "freak me out" such as coming home to find my front door wide open when it was dead bolted, getting locked in the bathroom from the outside Hook and Eye lock. Finding my pantry doors (spring loaded) wide open and a tote taken out and placed on the floor between the doors. But the Freak out was momentary, because I knew somehow it was my Mom. I believe that God does allow her to give me signs that she is okay because I am so distraught and actively seeking the truth. He allows her to comfort me because I am broken and it's part of his love for me to give me a sense of peace. I don't know much, only what my Mom tried to teach me (that I of course never really accepted) but I know that she always said that the desire of her heart was for her family to be reunited with her in Heaven. Like Robert, these experiences have only defeated the Devil as it is pulling me closer to faith and to all of the things that I could never believe before. My Mom is working for God now and I believe she is still teaching me and Preaching to me from her Heavenly place, because she wants me to join her there when God's plan for me has run it's course. Am I anywhere near the right path here? Thank you for all your insight, it is appreciated.

David Lim      29 Dec 2011, 10:32

Dear Dianne,

I am sad to hear of your loss, but the most important thing is whom you entrust yourself to. Your mother may be the most precious one to you in this world, but your God and father has to be the one you truly trust for everything. As brother Doug said, the dead can only do what God allows, and there is no clear evidence that anyone has ever been allowed to communicate with the dead. In actual fact the old testament explicitly makes it clear that God forbids mediums or necromancers. God himself wants to take care of all his children, so do not seek for your mother's presence but for his presence. Unexplainable things are not the ways of God, so I beseech you to ask him directly for his guidance, especially concerning anything that you do not expect. Put your trust in the God who created the heaven and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, who keeps truth forever. Yahweh loves the righteous and Yahweh will personally take care of them. Therefore blessed is the one who has the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in Yahweh his God. (see Psa 146; http://www.crosswire.org/study/parallelstudy.jsp?del=all&add=ASV&add=Darby& key=Psa+146). Call upon Yahweh and seek him in all things and he will answer. And may his peace be with you.

David

David Lim      29 Dec 2011, 10:34

Hmm the link was broken somehow (there should be no spaces):
http://www.crosswire.org/study/parallelstudy.jsp?del=all&add=ASV&add=Darby& key=Psa+146

Doug Buckley      29 Dec 2011, 14:40

Hi Dianne, I can tell that you are distraught over losing your mother, and I am sorry for your loss. You will absolutely be reunited with her at the end. It's not uncommon for people who going through something like this to desperately want to make contact with, or hear from, or continue to have a relationship with the deceased person. Nothing good comes of it. The bible says that angels can be ministering spirits, but not deceased loved ones. In 1st Samuel 28 Saul contacts a dead prophet, because the Lord isn't answering him. Around verses 15-16 Samuel is angry and tells Saul that he should have listened and obeyed God.

Hi David, the form doesn't do links, so she'll have to type it in.

Dianne      29 Dec 2011, 17:32

Thank you David for your insight as well. I don't think it's a Medium type thing. I think that my Mom and I were so very close here, we needed each other as we were all the other had except of course my Mom had God and we had other family, but it was basically her and I taking on the world and surviving together. So I think, if nothing else that it may have been an Angel who "hugged" me that Morning. It may not have been my Mom herself, but some kind of intervention letting me know that she is okay. I still smell her perfume and I can't move anything in her room. I miss her so, but I prayed to God ever since she passed to please just let me know that he's real, that heaven is real and that she is there with him and in being given that knowledge I could begin to heal. I don't want to think of my precious Mother just "taking a dirt nap" for however long it takes God to come back. I don't want to think of my Mom who was the most faithful, loving, selfless believer in God maybe not going to the Heaven she used to get excited just thinking of. I used to listen to my Mom talk about how joyful and amazing it would be when she got to see her Fathers face and how she longed to dance and sing before him and lay at his feet. She would beam with enthusiasm, like a child looking at the presents under the Christmas tree. She was by no means perfect, we all fall short of the glory of God, but my Mother loved with an innocent, pure love. she gave so much of herself to her family, friends and even animals and strangers. She always put God first and would get so angry with me when I questioned his very existance. She'd say "I know, that I know. I can't explain how I know, I just do." That was my Mom. We would frustrate each other to now end. Myself being the hard headed pessimist and she the eternal believer in God and faithful in all his works. Maybe God gave me that hug, maybe he gives me the comforting scent of her perfume. Honestly, I don't care if it wasn't really my Mom as long as I know it's an answer to my question for God. Does he exist, is there a heaven and is my Mom there with him? My Mom always said the same that paranormal experiences were forbidden and not of God, but I always told her that if something happened to her that she'd have to find a way to let me know she was okay or I didn't think I'd get through it. A month ago, I was sure that there was no God and that the bible was just some super myth written to keep us all in line and controlled. I wanted to die, because my heart hurts so bad every day. But the memory of my sweet Mom's voice saying "you can't go to heaven if you commit suicide" kept me from actually going through with it. My thing right now is, I need to find proof of God and heaven, because if everything my Mom said to me all my life is true, I need to know him. Right now I know that it is for a selfish reason, because I want to be with my Mom again. I want to know that it's possible. I know I should want to go to heaven to see him and that should be my main reason, but right now all I want is to see my Mom and hug her again. I know that if I can find proof of God that I will learn to love him like my Mother did and then my main priority will be to behold his face. I want to know him personally, but I don't know how to believe without proof. Always been my biggest problem. It drove my Mom nutts that I couldn't just take her word for it and believe. I'm trying. I want to know what she knew and go where she is. I'm looking and I think I found a good start here. I figure if all of these genius scientists can actually announce that aliens made us in their image and that the end of the world is actually an alien invasion, then why is it so hard to believe in God....Thank you David and Doug for helping me try to put it all together. I wish I had the patience to actually read and understand the bible, it just confuses me.

David Lim      29 Dec 2011, 21:04

Dear Dianne,

I am very glad that you truly want to know God, and want proof for him too. There are countless "arguments" by atheists to prove that he does not exist, not because they truly believe for a fact that there is no creator, but for other reasons, mainly because it requires us to accept that we need to depend completely on him and not ourselves. All we have to do is to look at the creation of God and its mere existence is enough to tell us about him. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the expanse shows the works of his hands (Psa 19; http://www.crosswire.org/study/passagestudy.jsp?mod=ESV&key=Psa+19), and even our own physical body is a wonderful testimony of his care. Everything in this universe follows laws, and laws cannot spontaneously come about, but are all set by a law-maker who is above them all. How much more we should seek to know and obey his laws for man! In doing them we will obtain life. (Deut 5-6, Deut 30, Matt 19:16-30, Mark 10:17-31, Luke 10:25-37) All the faithful Israelites knew and believed that though they would return to dust when their time of life on earth was over, God would raise them up in the last day, the righteous into eternal life and the unrighteous into eternal judgement and shame. (Dan 12, John 5:19-29, John 6:25-40) Such a blessed hope is ours, for God is faithful to the righteous.

If you would like to read the scriptures together with us, perhaps brother Doug can send you our email addresses, and we can talk off this site. But remember, the scriptures alone cannot give life, but they are the best witnesses of God and his Christ, so having read them, let us always come to our one teacher, the Christ, so that we may learn from him to love God and fear God and keep his commandments. (Eccl 12, John 5:30-47)

The grace of God be to you, amen.

David

Dianne      30 Dec 2011, 08:31

Thank you David, I would be grateful for any help I can find on this quest. It is very important to me that I get to a place where all the doubt in my mind is replaced by unquestionable knowledge of God and what it all means. I appreciate the patience and understanding that you and Doug have shown me here and maybe God can't let her "visit" me but maybe he can tell her that I am seeking him, I know that would make her proud. I want her to know that I did listen to her, even though I didn't exercise it then, it is the foundation for me now, to find him and ultimately find my way back to her through him. Feel free to retrieve my email from Doug and if you would both like to help me with scripture (I need all the help I can get there) I would be grateful. Thank you

veronica      10 Feb 2012, 23:08

i can see angels i see five of them everyday and i dont understand why like i seen this guy since i was a kid im 27 yrs old now im in love with him he died in 1988 i was born in 1985 i was 14yrs when i saw him he ben with me evey since he wearin a red sweater white t shirt undereath blue jeans an red boots now he corssin over hes the sixth angel i see them in smile my grand father dide before i was born i can see him my grandmother died when i was 23yrs old i can see her my body here i can see heaven my dad kiss me when i with there he said welcome home
i saw god he was so pretty he had on white robe white hair he said i have many things to say to you he said your sister well greed you thats when i pick up the bible he talk to me im goin home real soon i went to heaven an my moter was there i was satin on god lap cryin heaven shoke hard when i got done cryin the angel took me back down my mom said you done cryin yet girl i was cryin cause of sorrow my soul can go up to heaven an come back down god is real i cant help but to see them angels listen to me whatever you done get down on your keens an ask forgivens i look at a gave yard in saw nothin but angels standin there they in white im goin home soon when you see them you gonna die or you alread dead me im somin nevermind i can here my mother im slowin leavein my body thats how i feel if you have any comments please email me at veronicashelby26@yahoo.com

Lea      11 Feb 2012, 09:34

Hello Dianne. I think if any believer is honest they will admit that they have their times of doubt. It's normal. Our flesh/ego can be very strong and pushy and it's a daily battle making it submit to our spirit but if you have made Jesus Lord of your life, He dwells inside of you and you have Holy Spirit to help every step of the way (all you have to do is ask Him). I can assure you, if you truly give your life to Christ, you do not have to worry about being with your Mom again. You can know in your spirit this peace but the thing is, we have to hold on to our peace because we have an enemy that is working overtime to try to steal it from us by planting seeds of doubt.

From my understanding at this point (I'm always open to getting new revelation) is that when we die, while our mortal body stays here, our spirit and soul go to Paradise and at the same time we are with Jesus because he can be everywhere. Your mom is in a wonderful place :) I don't see anywhere in scripture that God allows deceased humans to visit us (in fact it says He's very much against us trying to call on them) but it does say that angels can.
I don't know if she is aware of your daily going ons but I believe the angels can certainly keep her informed and God may even use them to minister to you. We just have to be very very careful not to focus too much on the spiritual experiences we have but to keep our focus on the One who is the source of all Life, which is Jesus Christ. I can promise you, if you stay in the Word and keep eyes on Him, you will find joy and peace.

There are still so many mysteries about life on this planet. We can find many, but not all, the answer in the Bible but we have to be willing to search diligently to find them. While it's good to seek the counsel of others it can be so easy to just fall into the habit of listening to others and not checking things out for ourselves, which can bring confusion and doubt sometimes because there are so many "opinions" out there. While sermons and teachings are wonderful, the greatest revelation comes when you pray and ask Holy Spirit to show you and you sit down with His Word. My advise to you Dianne would be to make a little time each week to sit down and not just read the bible but study it. Don't expect to instantly get it. It takes time and perseverance but once you get your own first revelation from God, you will be hooked ;) And remember, God wants to show you His mysteries but our minds are finite and He is infinite. Ask God to even provide you with one good study partner that can sit with you and search for answers together. I have a dear sister in the Lord that God has provided and we have learned so much together! God's grace really and truly is sufficient to meet ALL of our needs. As you read this, you can know I've already prayed for you:)
*Name: (comments disabled)

  Email: (comments disabled)

*Text:(comments disabled)

Rules: (1) Posts should be on topic. Your comments and questions should be about the section you post them in. (2) Comments should be civil. No disrespectful, slanderous, or abusive posts. (3) No repetitive, harassing, or continuous posting. (4) Avoid swearing and vulgar language. (5) No copying and posting of material from other writers and websites.
Spam filter by Akismet.

Articles/Essays Bible Questions Risen from the Dust Bible Videos About Support

Copyright Doug D. Buckley, 2008-2014.
Content and design, all rights reserved.
Contact: cupatcupofwrath.com
Tweet
-- What's new?      Sign up here to get news and updates. --